On this episode, Rihanot and Tiara welcome Gabrielle Blair, an acclaimed author, speaker, and thought leader.
Gabrielle Blair is dedicated to challenging the long-standing narrative that places the burden of unwanted pregnancies, single motherhood, and abortions solely on women. With compelling logic and fervor, she contends that the fundamental cause of these issues is irresponsible male behavior.
Listen and Read the full episode below:
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Hello everyone and welcome back to the Counter Narrative, where we explore deeper stories behind the headlines and challenge misconceptions. I am Rihanot Ojo-Oba and I’m never here alone. I have here with me the incredible, amazing, beautiful Tiaraoluwa Oluwabukunmi Fadeyi. Hey girl
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Hi it’s so nice to be here, it’s so nice to talk to you again, to be on episode another episode again and today we’re not alone. Of course, we’re delighted to have Gabrielle Stanley Blair with us.
Gabrielle is not only an accomplished author but the mind behind the bestseller “Ejaculate Responsibly: A Whole New Way to Think about Abortion”, but also the founder of Design Mom, and The Alt Summit Conference. It’s a delight to have you here, Gabrielle.
Gabrielle Blair: I am so happy to be here, really looking forward to our conversation.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Yes, we are but before we go into the conversation, I like that you’re showing us love already because I can see love in you, tell us explicitly that you love myself and Tiara, and I want to hear it.
Gabrielle Blair: I love you both so much, I’m so excited to talk with you.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: I love you, I love you, we love you right back. How is France today Gabrielle?
Gabrielle Blair: Oh, France is beautiful today, Paris is always gorgeous.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Have you ever been to Paris, Tiara?
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Why do you want to expose me on this podcast, I don’t understand.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Okay when you put it like that, I take back my question, but do not ask me if I’ve been to France, don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t. All right, Gabrielle welcome again to the Counter Narrative podcast, we’re ready to jump right into the cup, we’re ready to eat you, to show you some love. we’re ready to delve into the conversation.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Oh yes we’re ready to delve right into the conversation. Every time We use “Delve”, we think of Delve-Gate on Twitter.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: yes, we’re gonna be doing a lot of delving today, all right guys uh just like Tiara said Gabrielle Blair is the author of “Ejaculate Responsibly: A Whole New Way to Think about Abortion”.
Gabrielle, my first question to you is, could you debunk one myth each about parenting and reproduction that aren’t backed by science?
Gabrielle Blair: yes um one of the myths I, when I think about reproductive discussions one of the big myths is that women can predict their ovulation, that women know when they’re going to ovulate and this is just something that is taught basically to women across the world, the way it was taught to me is that I would be ovulating two weeks after the first day of my last period. So in different places, it’s taught in different ways. But basically, they said, hey, two weeks after your last period, that’s when you’re ovulating. But that’s not actually true.
What the science says, what the research says, is that even if women have a very regular cycle, like maybe they have a 28-day on-the-dot cycle, even for those women, ovulation can happen any time in a 10-day period, and it can change from month to month. So when you’re trying to predict your own fertility, it’s actually very difficult and really risky. If you’re trying to use that as your main birth control, because it’s, again, it can change every month.
So that is one myth about reproductive health that I want people to understand.
For parenting, I mean, there are a million parenting myths. But if you’re trying to think of one related to it, I don’t know. If you’re trying to think of one related to reproductive health, I would just say that parents often have the idea that they don’t need to talk to their kids about sex, that sex will be taught to them at school or by their friends or some other time.
Or maybe a parent feels like if they have just explained the mechanics, like “this is what the penis does, this is what the vagina does”, they explain the basics, that they’ve done their job. And I think that’s absolutely wrong.
Parents need to talk to their kids about this in an age-appropriate way, in a fact-based way throughout their kids’ lives. Kids need a lot of education about this in order to have a healthy sex life, a safe sex life, and just not have a lot of baggage around sex.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: That’s interesting. Very. That’s interesting.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: I find myself saying, when we talk about birth control, because one of my favorite topics to talk about birth control and motherhood, especially birth control, by the way, I say that, see, the female, this is what I say, I say the female reproductive system is crazy. It is tricky. And I say, especially when people say, oh, I vouch by this method of birth control.
I know that I’m ovulating on this day. Oh, I know I’m safe on this day. I just look at them and I say, hm, you don’t even know your body. You’re going to be shocked. You cannot predict.
You cannot. Especially with the fact that every month, your period comes with different symptoms. So now I think you can predict what would happen the next time you’re ovulating.
You can assume you’re ovulating today, and it’s just, you know, you’re not thinking, oh, “I’m safe today. I’m going to have safe sex”. And what if it’s that day that you’re ovulating? You do not really know what is happening inside of you. And if there’s anything you can do, it’s to be careful.
Especially if you’re sexually active, you have to be very careful.
Gabrielle Blair: And it gets even, like, you guys are both young compared to me. I’m going to be 50 this year. And it gets worse as you get older. Like, your period becomes so unpredictable that you just have no idea but you can still become pregnant. So it gets, anyway, it’s just very unpredictable. And you have to be so careful, so, so careful.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Oof. Wow.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: So you started your blog, Design Mom, to connect with other mothers. I think it was when you had your fifth child. Yes. Yes. So you started it to connect with other moms. How’s that been for you? Like, how has the connection been? How have you been able to?
So I’m sure you get testimonials and stuff about how to do it. Yes. So tell us all about that.
Gabrielle Blair: Yeah. So this has been for a long time. I started Design Mom in 2006, so a long time ago and I have talked to thousands and thousands and thousands of women in that time since then. And I mean, it just has made the biggest difference. I was a parent for 10 years before blogs were kind of a thing, before, like, mom blogs existed and then I got to experience parenting.
And then I got to experience parenting after I’d started the blog. And it was so much better after because you had women to talk to and I think so often, parents are told, and especially mothers, that we’re supposed to sort of parent in isolation, that it’s just supposed to be you at home with your kid and everything is on your shoulders. And really, you feel like the things you’re going through, that you’re all alone and you’re the only one experiencing it when you lose your patience or feel angry or feel like maybe you’re not getting any validation. And when blogging came around, suddenly, you could hear from so many mothers that were talking about their experiences and really understand that you weren’t alone.
And then blogging, of course, turned into Instagram. And it turned into now TikTok and other platforms as well. But I think it’s been a really amazing thing that we’ve been able to actually hear the stories of mothers from the mothers, where before any of the social media and before blogs, you were really only hearing about mothers from maybe people who were writing about motherhood, that were fathers writing about motherhood. We weren’t really hearing from the mothers. So I think it’s been amazing.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: I’m a mom myself. I have a seven-year-old and a five-year-old and I like this conversation we’re having as regards parenting. And you mentioned something about parenting in isolation. So many people had no idea what parenting was all about. I felt like it was like someone who cannot swim, and you just get thrown into a pool, and you have to survive or try not to drown.
And I think that I’m going to link it to the #MeToo movement. A mom who has no idea who’s been suffering in silence, for example, or dealing with stuff she cannot share, just maybe she’s able to breathe and says, “Oh my god, this is happening”. And then you find other women sharing the same experience. I remember when I just had my child, my advocacy became louder after I had my first child.
I actually, I remember saying things like, “Oh, after I had my child, I started to queef. Then I said things like, oh, I felt like my vagina expanded. Because I, of course, was having, I mean, I’m a sexually active mom-person.
And I could feel that the way that a penis fitted into my vagina, that wasn’t how it was after birth. I was able to say this. And other moms were like, “Oh, it’s not just you” and we’re able to come to an agreement that childbirth, vaginal delivery, it actually does something to the vagina. Yes. Yeah. But it may not go back to how it was before the baby came out. And there’s a lot of me too.
Women saying, “It’s not just you. I’m experiencing this. I’m experiencing that”. It is nature. And that’s the beauty of community, the beauty of sisterhood, the beauty of coming together. So thank you for the incredible work you’re doing. Because sometimes it feels like you’re losing your mind.
Tiara, I don’t know if you remember, the other day, a mom said that her baby fell from the bed. And she felt horrible. She was crying. And if you had seen the responses on that trend, I’m sure that she would really hug herself to, she would hug herself knowing that she wasn’t alone. Everyone responded to say, “See, our babies have fallen”.
My babies, yes. You will be breastfeeding. You would sleep off. You meet your baby on the floor. Yes. Yes. And she felt warm. She felt comfort. It felt like a community of “me too” moms. So, thank you for the incredible work that you do. This is very personal to me because I’m a mom.
So thank you, Gabrielle. Thank you. Thank you.
Gabrielle Blair: Well, thank you. No one should parent in.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: So the summary is, that no one should parent in isolation.
Gabrielle Blair: I agree. It’s just so much healthier for everyone, for the children, for the parents to have support and have a community. Yes. Yes, yes.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: So you’re a mother of six. And the author of the book “Ejaculate Responsibly: A Whole New Way to Think about Abortion.” How often do these two facts cause you to raise eyebrows with people?
Gabrielle Blair: It does. It does make people laugh because they’ll say, “If you have six kids, then perhaps you don’t know anything about responsible ejaculation”. But I will say, I mean, I am a big fan of birth control because I did get to choose when I wanted to be pregnant.
And I know not everyone would choose to have six kids. But I come from a big family, my husband also, from a big family. And we knew we wanted lots of kids. But I got to choose when it was right for me to have a baby. And so really, I think my husband is very good at ejaculating responsibly because we got to choose when we wanted to have a child.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Oh, OK. So when you talk to people and they say, “Oh, you don’t know anything about abortion because you last six kids”, how do you react to them?
Gabrielle Blair: I mean, I feel like I became much more of a pro-choice advocate, an abortion accessibility advocate after I had my first baby, or after I was experiencing pregnancy for the first time. I found pregnancy incredibly difficult, just incredibly difficult. I would get very sick, the whole time, I just really struggled. And I remember thinking, and then, of course, childbirth was traumatic and difficult.
And I had very, what would be called, easy childbirths. Oh, yeah. Like nothing went wrong. There were no big injuries. But I still found them very difficult. And I just remember thinking so clearly, “If you do not desperately want to be pregnant, I would not wish this on anyone”. If you did not choose this and really want this, it is not fair to ask anyone to go through this. It is so hard on your body. It is so hard on your mental health and if you didn’t want to be there, you know, if you’re not actively choosing this pregnancy, then I feel like women should have the right to opt-out.
So for me, it’s true I’ve never had an abortion. I believe that women should be able to get an abortion if they need one, period. If they need or want one. Like they can decide. And I think women, in general, really try hard to do the work of pregnancy prevention and that women are already preventing millions and millions of unwanted pregnancies every year.
So when they aren’t able to do that for whatever reason, maybe they can’t access birth control, maybe there’s some coercion or abuse involved by their partner, we need to make sure they have the option to have an abortion if they want one. That’s my take.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Wow. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. I think that’s a powerful response, to be honest. And it’s, yeah. I can’t say much more. I can see your face Rihanot.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Oh, God. You know, I’m very excited, Tiara, because I’m a mom. And you know, if I have to amplify everything she said, we’re not going to finish this conversation.
But you know, when I talk about how difficult pregnancy is, being a mom and everything, you know, it’s such a difficult thing to say. You know why I say so? Because you’re met with feedback or criticism, like, it’s hard, but you go on your own. Like, it’s hard, but you have to. So you have to be careful in dishing the advice because they’ll say. “Let me experience the hardness, too”. So I’m not saying you, I’m not saying do not have children.
I’m just saying, oh, “Busola, you want to have a baby. Oh, this is what pregnancy was like for me. I don’t know what would happen to you. Then this is what childbirth is like”. It took me being on my fourth method of birth control to find the one that works. From the 15 to 12 days periods to the migraines to the discomfort of pads. So birth control.
Pregnancy, I said, it took two years for me to bond with my second child. Because the labor and delivery was excruciatingly painful. It took two years. I couldn’t move past the pain. It was so painful. So when you have this conversation, it’s from a place of care, actually. Like, “Oh, you want to do it. Oh, I’m happy for you, love and light. But this is going to be what is going to, you’re more likely to experience this. So something like that.
It’s just really hard to have this conversation.
Gabrielle Blair: I agree.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: But we’re glad we’re here.
Gabrielle Blair: I am so sorry to hear how difficult your second birth was. That’s just, it’s really, really hard. I feel like I can’t even watch movies. I have to turn away when there’s a childbirth scene. Because it’s still too traumatic and my youngest is now 13 years old.
It’s been 13 years since I’ve had a delivery. And I still am like, I can’t. It’s just too much. It’s too much.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: I remember, I was telling my friend, I was in traffic one day, and I saw a woman who, I saw people trying to clear the road. And I was in panic mode, because I didn’t know what was up. Someone was hitting my car. Then I turned and I saw in a keke, I saw a woman holding the head of a baby. For like a month, I was seeing it.
Every time I thought about it, I would shiver. Now, I have two kids. But every time I thought of that woman, she held a baby’s head. Obviously, they were very close to the hospital. But any time that I think about it, something happens to my body. I’m like, how do these things happen? And to think, I’m a mom.
So I can imagine you, 13 years. And when you think about it, you’re like, no.
Let’s talk about your famous 2018 Twitter trend.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Yes, let’s talk about that trend. We can’t talk about birth control, and childbirth, without talking about that. I’m still quoting it till today. Till today, Tiara. Till today.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: What inspired you to start that conversation, it is still relevant, I hope. And it will be relevant tomorrow, and the day after, and the days after. And you know, I think so many people felt very attacked.
Like what do you mean, by we are not ejaculating responsibly, you know? So what inspired you to start that conversation, Gabrielle?
Gabrielle Blair: Yes, so that Twitter thread, which is still, if you need to find it, it’s my pinned tweet. It has been for, since 2018. Yes. It still gets retweeted and shared every day, every day, like even five years later. It’s just amazing. And I’ve written other viral things, but nothing has come close to this thread.
So what inspired it was I was reading an article. I can’t remember what it was, but an article about the number of abortions in America I don’t remember what the number was, but it was like, oh, that was higher than I was expecting. And so I started thinking about, well, why would that be? And I felt like this light bulb go off in my head.
And I was like, I know why. I know why there’s more. Because I was thinking, you know, wouldn’t these women, if they’re going to go to the hospital and they need an abortion or go to their doctor’s office, you know, wouldn’t they be able to go to the doctor’s office to get birth control? So that’s what at first my brain was thinking.
And then I had this light bulb moment where I said, no, that’s not how it works. I have used every kind of birth control because, like you, they didn’t always work for me. The side effects, are too much. I tried an IUD and just bled and bled and bled. It was just horrible. You know, like so many different things. I felt like I’d tried them all. And I want to be clear, I’m still very grateful for birth control.
Like I still think it’s like a miracle. And I want to be clear, I’m very pro-birth control. But it was challenging. And every country, it’s different. But like where I was living, I had to go get a doctor’s appointment and it was hard to get a doctor’s appointment. You had to wait for a month because the doctor’s office is too busy. And then I have to get I have all these kids so now I get me to get babysitters for the kids and then having to get transportation there. And then, it’s all very expensive. And then I have to go wait in line to get my pills. Like the whole thing is just that’s just getting the medicine.
And then, of course, you have to take the medicine every day, even if you’re not having sex. Like if we’re talking about the pill, you’re having to take the pill. Every day, even if your partner is traveling or if you’re traveling, you have to think about this thing all the time and you have to deal with the side effects every day.
And anyway, and so suddenly I could see there are a lot of reasons why a woman might not be able to be using birth control. Maybe she hasn’t found one that works for her. Maybe she can’t afford it. Maybe she can’t get to the doctor. Maybe she just doesn’t have access to it. Birth control can have complications.
Like if you’re taking other medications, they can make your birth control less effective, you know, so there’s a million. So I could just like see this. Oh, I can see why women might not be able to have birth control. And then I wrote a little essay about it, but I didn’t know where to share it because it wasn’t kind of the normal kind of content I would share and write about. And then Brett Kavanaugh, who is on the Supreme Court in the US, was being vetted like they were asking him all the questions to see if he was worthy of being on the Supreme Court.
By the way, he’s not worthy, in my opinion, but anyway, I was watching them ask him questions and I was getting angrier and angrier. It was all of these politicians. It was just men just asking him these questions about women’s bodies. And it was so clear that none of them understood what was happening, like understood the topic of reproductive health care. They didn’t understand abortion. They didn’t understand birth control. They just didn’t understand. They didn’t even care.
They just knew if they asked these questions, if they said these words, then they get the vote. You know, like it was just. I was so angry. And that’s when I wrote the Twitter thread, which was my very first thread. I tweeted many times, but I never like wrote a full thread. And it’s way too long.
It’s 63 tweets. So that’s like you should never write 63 tweet threads. But I didn’t know because it was my first time. Um, anyway, and it took off. Like immediately and I was getting called by newspapers and magazines. And it was like, I don’t know, it just like kind of blew people’s minds. And so that was really, really exciting.
And then ever since then, it’s as I mentioned, it’s been shared and retweeted and commented on every single day since then.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Wow. Oh, wow. So it’s you know, you mentioned the fact that men do not know anything about female reproductive system, but they are the ones making the laws, they are the ones who are very vocal about abortion debates. You know, it was this story. Somebody shared on Twitter that her boyfriend, her then-boyfriend because she had to break up with him. Her then-boyfriend was telling her that can she move her period to the month end. Like, like, are you kidding me?
You know, it’s really ridiculous. No, it’s very, very, very, ridiculous. You can move it to the, to the month end and every woman gets their period at the end of the month.
These are the people who are making these laws, they don’t know anything.
Gabrielle Blair: right I remember one man was talking to me like so people will argue with me on Twitter about what I wrote all the time which is kind of fun for me I’m like I know all the answers and I’ll get on and give answers but one person one man thought that when women took the pill they only took it like right before they had sex that day so like if you have a headache and you take like ibuprofen or something they thought it was like that.
I was like no you have to take it every day or it doesn’t work and I’m like why do you get to have an opinion about women’s bodies when you don’t even know this very basic information you know
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: I’m really interested because we have time and I’m excited I want to look at tiara she said in here oh I remember “Men don’t love condoms, in fact, men frequently pressure women to have sex without a condom and it’s not on and it’s not on ed or for men to remove the condom during sex without women’s permission or knowledge.”
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Yes that’s an entire conversation on its own. Yes. I think what made that trend like blow up was your assertion the first thing you said was men are 100% responsible for all unwanted pregnancies.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: it was like what do you mean by it is men. So please tell us what you meant.
Gabrielle Blair: okay so basically my I mean as you read the thread or as you read my book it becomes clear but basically I maintain it is a biological fact um here’s the reality, men are fertile every single day from puberty until death and they know that they’re fertile there’s not a question.
They don’t have to guess they’re if they’re fertile, they’re fertile. Um, so women of course, don’t know when we’re fertile. We’ve already talked about that, it’s unpredictable but it’s also involuntary. I don’t get to choose when it happens. I don’t get to control it, I don’t get to control how long I’m fertile, like I don’t have any control of that but ejaculations are kind of the opposite of that is men get to choose to ejaculate, they get to choose to release their sperm, so if we’re talking about consensual sex, which is what we’re talking about; no one is forcing them to put their sperm in someone’s vagina and they’re not going to be able to ejaculate they’re not going to do that.
So men have control of whether or not they choose to cause a pregnancy. And of course, people don’t want to hear that. They want to hear, no, no, it’s 50-50. But I have two things to say to that.
One is, no, it’s not 50-50. Right now in our world, women are expected to do all the work of pregnancy prevention and men are expected to do none of the work. So that’s not 50-50. But also, it shouldn’t be 50-50.
It should be 100-100. Men are 100% responsible for their bodies. Women are 100% responsible for their bodies. And women are already acting responsibly. They’re already taking birth control, and doing pregnancy prevention work. They’re already preventing millions and millions and millions of unwanted pregnancies every year.
We’re just asking men to step up and do their part. Men have great options for birth control and for ejaculating responsibly and we can talk about those if you like.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: And speaking of that, in your thread, you said, so there are men willing to risk getting a woman pregnant, which means literally risking her life, her health, her social status, her relationship, and her career. So they get to experience a few minutes of slightly more pleasure. Is that for real?
Yes, it is. Yes, they are responsible. Yes, it is. Because women are taking on so many responsibilities already.
Gabrielle Blair: Right. Because the reality is, women do have, there are lots of forms of birth control for women. But the very easiest, most accessible, cheapest, safest, simplest birth control, and most convenient, is condoms.
They are, again, easier, cheaper, safer, more convenient, and more accessible than any woman’s birth control. And instead of embracing them and encouraging men to learn how to use them, practice, and figure out what works best for them, we just make fun of them or act like they’re just the worst thing in the world. And, I mean, really, we should be just cheering condoms on because there is no hormonal birth control that will prevent sexually transmitted infections and diseases. Like, condoms are it.
So I really feel like we should be cheering condoms on. And the good news is, condoms have improved. Like, you hear horror stories from, like the 1970s and the condoms were just horrible. But they’ve gotten better and better.
So now, if you talk to men that use condoms regularly, and they’re like, “Okay, I took the time to, like, practice and figure out what size I like and what material I like and what kind of lubrication I like”, that if they take the time to learn how to use it, they say sex with a condom or without a condom is fine. Like, they don’t, it’s not a big enough difference that they would ever risk their partner.
So that’s really good news. And I do want us to celebrate condoms and encourage men to use condoms. But the reality is, no man wants to hear from me about condoms. The random white middle-aged lady from America, like, no man wants to hear that from me, right?
They want to hear it from other men. So I really need other men who are comfortable with condoms, who’ve learned how to use condoms, to spread the word, to talk to other men, to say, “Why would you ever have sex without a condom? Like, that’s so, like, irresponsible. It’s so cruel to this woman”. And this, you’re risking her body and her life. Like, what are you doing? Like, that’s how it should be.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Wow. Wow. So, I remember that you mentioned how, when they started creating male contraceptives, about how men complain about, one-third of what women, actually, constantly go through when they use, when they use oral contraceptives. And it was discontinued. It wasn’t approved. Why do you, why do you think it’s so, this is, I think it feels like society is just so happy, so comfortable with women bearing the brunt, bearing the burden, and in order to make things easier for, for, for men, when it comes to taking responsibilities for something like that.
So could you shed some light on that? Why do you think that is?
Gabrielle Blair: Yeah, you’re exactly right. I, in the thread, in the book, I mentioned that we don’t mind when, if women suffer, as long as it makes things easier for men. Like, we will ignore women’s suffering as long as it makes things easier for men. And it’s very true. And around, when we’re talking about sex, it’s especially true.
We are taught, women are taught this, and men are taught this, that men’s pleasure is the number one priority. In life in general, but especially in sex. Like, if someone, like, if there’s a movie we’re watching, and they’re showing a sex scene, the sex scene is penetration, the man puts his penis in the vagina, and then he has an orgasm, or he ejaculates. And that’s the end of sex. That’s sort of, like, how we define sex.
The woman’s pleasure, her orgasm, her experience isn’t even in the definition. We just define the whole act of sex based on what the man is experiencing and on his pleasure.
And we’re all taught this. Every person is taught that this is what sex means. And of course, that’s just wrong. It’s wrong across the board. But it’s just so deep in our culture that I can’t even be angry that men think, this because women think this too. We’re all taught this.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Speaking of men’s pleasure being paramount, in conversations with ladies, with women, you realize that so many women have actually never, ever orgasmed. Again, if you go for the conversation, so many women get pleasure from their sex toys, then there’s the conversation of some sect of men getting angry. “Oh, you have a sex toy. When there’s a man, there’s that”. But back to men’s pleasure being paramount. So man and woman have engaged in consensual sex and then the man ejaculates and he’s like panting because, “Oh, the world has come down”. He is panting. And then there’s your woman there who probably hasn’t even gotten to, what’s the word? You haven’t even experienced half. And then there’s the conversation of, “Because you’ve ejaculated, you feel fine, you feel satisfied, and you’re happy”.
And then there’s your woman there looking like, what happens to me? Where is the satisfaction, orgasm, and pleasure? Then there’s “You know, I’m a man. Once I ejaculate, my body cannot go like that”. They make it sound like the moment they have ejaculated, they are good. But women are suffering.
Women are not getting pleasure from penetrative sex. I use the word penetrative sex. Because, like you said, it’s just penetrative sex. No orgasm, no pleasure. You ejaculate and you’re done. Is your woman satisfied? Is she satisfied? Did she orgasm? Did X, Y, and Z happen to her? You just leave her there and you go about your day and you’re like, “Oh, I’m good in bed. I came at, after how many minutes?”
That’s the brag as against your woman actually deriving pleasure. What do you mean by your body cannot go multiple rounds? Honey, I’m not even close to satisfied and this is from just one round. I’m not close to satisfied. I guess the amount of pounding will equate to satisfaction. I just, okay, you were in my vagina. Okay, and so what? I do not feel pleasured. I do not feel, you know when you feel butterflies in your stomach from falling in love? Nothing happens to my vagina. I do not have that. Your vagina does this thing when you’re happy. I don’t know how to explain it. It tickles. Sometimes it hardens. So many things happen to it. I didn’t feel anything. You went in and you came out. Is that all you have to offer, my love? No honey. Get back to work. But they do not care. But your husband has-And again, we can’t talk about birthing. We’re talking about pleasure as well.
When so many women have children, it is, but you had children. What do you want sex for? You need to keep your partners, your women in a state of pleasure. Keep them satisfied. Touch them. Do them. Whatever.
Engage their bodies. Come on. Gabrielle, say something. I feel like it’s not a me thing, you know? This is not just you. And you know,
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: it’s unfair because women, based on the societal conditioning as women, you can only get sex from, for example, in marriage, in that institution. The institution does not permit infidelity. So there’s no way you can say, if I get this from my man, I can get this outside. Unlike where some men have the leverage to get, you know, I hear of men. Some men will say, oh, my wife does not give me a blowjob. I get it out. How many women can say that confidently?
So if you’re not pleasuring your woman, where should she get pleasure from? That’s the big question.
Gabrielle Blair: That’s a huge question. And it just makes no sense because if the men would take the time to learn how to pleasure their wives, they’re going to get a lot more sex. If she thinks sex is fun, if she knows she’s going to experience an orgasm because she loves sex because he does such a great job, they’re just going to have more sex. Like everyone wins.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: They don’t want to be winning. No, they don’t. They don’t. They don’t want women winning.
Gabrielle Blair: They don’t want women winning. They really feel like a competition.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Yes. A lot of them don’t care. They don’t want to know what works for you. I’ve done that work for you. Even when you tell them that, oh, this doesn’t do it for me. They don’t care. That’s what they want to do. They still go ahead to do it. So it’s very crazy.
So you mentioned something about condoms. Oh, yeah. You want to say something, Gabrielle?
Gabrielle Blair: Yeah. Say again? Oh, about condoms?
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Oh, yeah. So you mentioned about condoms, about how they are very effective for protecting against unwanted pregnancies and STDs. Also in your thread, you mentioned that you spoke about pull-outs, about how those methods can help to ejaculate responsibly. But you found out a lot of men still do not practice it. What do you think is responsible for this?
Gabrielle Blair: I mean, the pull-out one is fascinating to me because the statistics are really interesting. When you do it correctly, it’s 96% effective. That’s really good. I mean, condoms are 98% effective when you use them correctly. So having the pull-out method be 96% effective is great. But the problem is men don’t learn to do it correctly. So in real life, it’s only 76% effective instead of 96%, which is not obviously nearly as good.
It’s like, you guys, you have this, men, you have this built-in birth control. If you really hate condoms, you have this built-in birth control, and you still won’t learn how to use it correctly? Like, you still won’t practice? It makes no sense.
Because then they don’t even really have to, like, I mean, I think they don’t want to reduce their pleasure. Again, we think we’ve been taught that their pleasure is the most important. So if they have to pull out and have their orgasm against their partner’s stomach instead, or in their hand instead of, like, in her vagina, and they feel like, well, that might be slightly less pleasurable, they won’t choose it.
And you’re going, do you understand the equation, you know, the math you’re doing in your head there? You’re saying, “My few seconds of a little bit more pleasure”, I mean, it will still be pleasurable against her stomach, but “my few seconds of slightly more pleasure is more important than her whole life. Like, that is what is happening there. It is insane.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: It’s so insane. Again, in conversations, when we talk about males, speaking of, I want to press about what you said about reducing their pleasure, we find grown men shaming other responsible men who have undergone a vasectomy. They shame them. Like, they actually come together to shame them, Gabrielle.
And then I look at them, and I’m like, do you know what it is to say to your wife that, you know what, the burden of birth control, I will take it. You rest. Aside from being on birth control, there are so many things that moms, and women do, physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, All the LLYs, raising and caring for a home.
So, a man has decided to get a vasectomy, and there is, you wouldn’t wear a condom, and then you’re shaming another man who’s gone through a vasectomy. What exactly is the problem with a manosphere? Because there’s no other explanation. And you say that, oh, you guys get bullied. I realize that men bully men more than other people. Women do not bully men as much as men bully men. Men bully everybody more than others. Exactly. They’re always shamed. They’re like, you go get a vasectomy. Your wife is controlling. How will you perform? I’m like, are you educated? I’m sorry. What are you saying?
We talked about the side effects of birth control. I’ve not seen any birth control that does not have a side effect. It took me the fourth method to get one that works for my body. And you’re shaming a man who went through a vasectomy.
Gabrielle Blair: Yeah. A simple, easy procedure. 15 minutes. They can drive themselves home or walk home after. It’s not a big deal. It’s not a big deal. And they’re, and it’s, I don’t know, I’m a huge fan of vasectomies. And I hate that men shame other men about that. I think it’s horrible. Because if you talk to any doctors about it, they’re like, no, they’re great.
I mean, like, they don’t change your performance. They’re terrific. I don’t know. It’s really, really frustrating. I feel like we see the same mindset with condoms, where men feel like they are the winner if they can convince a woman to have sex without a condom. They feel like it’s a challenge. Oh, can I, can I, you know, intimidate her so she won’t ask for a condom? Like, what is, like, what?
It makes no sense. You’re not more manly if you are if you ejaculate irresponsibly. You’re less manly.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: You’re less manly. You are less manly. If you ejaculate irresponsibly, you are less manly. Yes, you are. You are less manly if you ejaculate irresponsibly. Oh, man, this conversation is, there’s a whole lot in real life.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: It’s a necessary one. And it’s a necessary one.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Because how dare you? Because it’s like, you should be happy that your husband, your partner wants to have sex with you. And you are there saying, wear a condom? How dare you? Do you know how many women are begging me outside to sleep with them? That’s what it looks like.
That’s like the descriptive analogy. And then there’s a conversation where they will threaten you. If you don’t do it, another woman will leave my sight, you know? And. Well, I mean, what other choices do these women have? They have more of a choice than to do their bidding, you know?
Yeah. And, you know, we can talk about birth control, childbirth, more doubt. We’re all talking about abortions. And how do you personally define abortion? And what scientific evidence supports your definition, Gabrielle?
Gabrielle Blair: Well, I mean, my definition of abortion is a woman choosing to end a pregnancy for any reason. And scientific evidence for that, I mean, I think is pretty, I mean, I don’t know what we’re looking there as far as I’m not sure what you’re looking for as far as scientific evidence.
But I don’t think we need scientific evidence for it. If a woman says, I don’t want to be pregnant, she has her reasons. I do believe there’s something like a mother’s intuition, like an instinct, right? If a pregnant woman is like, “My instinct is that now is not a good time to have a baby”, I believe her. I believe that’s her mother’s intuition telling her, yeah, don’t have a baby.
Either the baby won’t thrive or you won’t thrive as a mother or, you know, it’s not a good time to have a baby. So if she says, if her body is telling her, don’t have a baby, I believe her. Who else would know better than her? Nobody. No one.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: I remember after having my first child, when I went to get birth control. I mean, I mean, I was there and there was this woman and she was like, oh, she didn’t know which one to take. I was also new at it. I was just there. I was like, oh, we’re just rubbing minds. And I’m like, oh, I said I was going to get the one in the implant on. And she said, oh, that she couldn’t get it. That her husband likes to touch her body. What if he feels it?
I’m like, um, oh, how about an IUD? She’s like, “ He’s that is likely to see it”. And I’m like, you’re not going to live here without any. I was just doing, I was being a woman’s woman. And I said, how about you take the Depo shots? If you inject and come to the hospital every three months, he cannot touch your body and know that you’ve got an injection.
He can’t feel any signs of you being on birth control. And if he’s saying things like, oh, why is the baby not coming? You are protecting yourself. You could just keep saying, oh, I don’t know why. I’m sorry, but it’s really not easy as a mom who takes care of a household and children and all of the work, domestic, and childcare.
When you’re ready, you’re ready. And when you’re not ready, you’re not ready. So I agree with what you’re saying, Gabrielle, I would, and I will hold you to your words. You want to have a baby. And as you said, it’s not just about being ready to have the baby. You as the mother, will you be fine as well?
The mother also matters in this as well. You want to have a baby. We are with you, you do not want to have a baby. We are with you. Do it at your own pace, at your own time, not at society’s time.
Like I always tell women, I know it might be hard, especially in the society we are in, to have the amount of children that you, you, desire, it can be hard with the kind of pressure people go through, but you’re absolutely correct.
And I agree with what you said as well.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Yes. And, you know, um, I think in Spain that first mentioned this, a lot of people think or say like that there are, there are, um, there are words against abortion or they are thoughts against abortion is that it is murder.
They say it is murder. Yes. So, you know, when they say that do, what’s your thought on that? Do you think abortion is murder?
Gabrielle Blair: I don’t think abortion is murder. Um, I am a religious person, and, uh, every religion teaches things differently, and in my religion, a child isn’t a child until they’re born to like they’re born fully formed. They can live and they can breathe and then it’s a child. And before that, it’s not.
And so for me, I don’t see it as murder at all. Um, I especially don’t. I don’t think it’s murder because it’s, well if you look at the statistics, the vast majority of abortions happen very, very early.
This is when this is just like a few cells. And I mean, it’s really, uh, not recognizable as human in any way. And, and I also don’t think it’s murder because, uh, like they say 25 to 30%, they’re not even sure. Sometimes they say as much as 50% of pregnancies end in miscarriage, and this is like a lot of pregnancies don’t finish. And we don’t think of that as murder.
We don’t say, oh, God is murdering these babies every time there’s a miscarriage, but a miscarriage and an abortion look identical. Like these days to get an abortion, you take a pill and you basically have a heavy period.
It’s a miscarriage and we don’t think miscarriages are murder. And I don’t think we need to think of abortions as murder. It doesn’t, it doesn’t help the conversation. It doesn’t, it doesn’t reduce the number of abortions by yelling at women and telling them they’re murderers.
We don’t have less abortion because of that. There are two things that reduce abortion that have been proven. There are only two things. One is free and accessible birth control. If you make birth control, all forms, vasectomies, condoms for men, but also all the women’s options. If those are free and accessible, that reduces abortion. The other thing is fact-based sex ed all throughout a kid’s life.
You know, like those are the things that reduce abortion, everything else, you might reduce one here, one there, but nothing reduces it in a significant way, except those two things.
That’s it.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Yeah. Yes. That’s, that’s, that’s very, that’s very important. So, you know, with the, with the overturning of Roe v Wade, we’ve seen a shift in the reproductive rights of women. Do you see, anything changing soon?
Gabrielle Blair: Honestly, it’s been really interesting, it’s the election year in the US. So of course we’re all watching it closely. Abortion is on the ballot in each state. Like people are talking about abortion and the overwhelming majority of Americans are making very clear, they want to see legal, safe abortion. Like they want to keep abortion legal and safe.
That is actually a very small minority that is fighting against this. So. I mean, it’s, that’s good news as far as like, that’s great that most people are on board with legal, safe abortion.
The bad news is we’re still having to fight so hard for it. There are many predictions that if Trump is elected, that there will be a nationwide ban on abortion in the US. And I mean, that’s just horrific to think about, the bans that have happened already have killed so many women have had or, or ruined their fertility or put their lives at risk. It’s been really, really dangerous because doctors don’t feel like they can even help a woman who’s pregnant.
Even if she’s not having, an abortion, even if she’s just having a miscarriage, they feel like they’re not allowed to help her because they could go to jail because it would look like he’s helping her have an abortion. It’s really, really dangerous right now. So the bad news is that it’s really, really dangerous.
Is it getting better? I hope so. People are angry about this. Women are angry, but so are men. Like people are really angry. They’re really angry about the changes that have happened since Roe v. Wade. So if I can be positive, it’s that good. Let’s use that anger and, uh, and fix things.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: If we had more, when we talk about women in leadership spaces, myself and Tiara, another feminist talk about it. What do we say, Tiara? We say not only, but it’s also not only for women to be in leadership spaces, we want feminist women. Myself and Gabrielle having {this} conversation, for real, It took me being on my fourth method of birth control to really find the one that works for me, this is what I’m going through with my children and work.
So you’re putting it in laws in place. So maybe motherhood penalties would not exist, women would have it really easy in the workforce, maybe paid mortality leave for a year or two in countries that really work. And our sexual, reproductive rights do not have to be something we have to fight for daily, because it is exhausting. I’d mentioned earlier in a conversation, I said that the female reproductive system is tricky even whilst on birth control sometimes when I have some type of sex I still take extra pills, I’m always guiding you know (laughs), I’m always very afraid.
I remember one night it was during was it during COVID, I do not remember when I was taking a break from birth control because I always bled from 12 to 15 days in a month I was taking a break so I had had sex that night then I went to a pharmacist and I asked for Postinor and the lady at the pharmacist lady was like “oh sorry that she doesn’t sell.” I’m like “oh why?” and she’s like “oh she believes that if a man and woman have come together, Something has formed and she cannot be part of the reason”, she doesn’t want to undo it you know?
I was angry because I kept thinking in my head, “you are depriving me of having access to birth control.” and I was thinking, imagine my father raped me, imagine it was a robber. I had all of these scenarios in my head and I’m like you know what not only should we have women we also want feminist women in these spaces, in health care in all sectors where women’s lives are likely to be at risk and in danger, because what do you mean that you were not going to sell to me?
I don’t think they ask boys if they are married when they go to buy condoms oh, you will just sell me the thing and you will just collect the money and I’ll just go to my house. why are you asking? what formed?
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: that person cannot make it in business like that, you understand.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: you don’t do that to women and girls it could have been anything and you know we need conscious people in this space to take up all of these spaces for women’s lives to be easier honestly.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: You know when people make when people make debates, when people make arguments for abortion and and people go oh What if I was raped? what if.. it doesn’t even have to get there? No. exactly. like you just want to, you should be able to. that’s all. Abortion rights are literally human rights.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: you know there’s something that I do the more, when I was on birth control I grew more confident, whenever I go to buy these pills pharmacy, I buy it and I buy water and I use it there. I’m like you’re not going to shame me you don’t need to know if I’m married, I’m young, I’m single. I bought it and I used it, then when I started taking the daily pills. that was my fourth method. I always set my alarm for 8 p.m so I always forget, so I thought to myself what time would I always be with my phone?
So I set it to 10 a.m, every 10 a.m, I’m at work so I told all my colleagues in front of me, I’m like at 10 a.m I take my birth control pills, I don’t want to get pregnant. Again, it takes a village.
Gabrielle Blair: That’s amazing
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: So when they hear the alarm, everybody is like Rihanot, Rihanot, your medicine, your medicine. Everybody reminds me to take my pills because I let them know how important it was, like this is my own saving grace, this is what I’m doing to ensure, I do not get pregnant.
So everyone always reminded me to take my pills because sometimes you can leave your phone you’re chatting with a friend. So when I was not taking my birth control they were like “Rihanot, what happened we don’t hear the alarm anymore?” I’m like oh that my body is resting from the pills because yeah you know it’s really important we have to again we have to surround ourselves with people that really understand our struggles and all of that and that’s the beauty of community again so I’m glad we’re having these conversations, Gabrielle.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: it’s, it’s an important conversation.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: It is important because and the thing is I feel like sometimes when I think about these things you’re like I think women if we’re being honest, I think I believe that we are on our own because I do not think that men would truly grasp just, yesterday somebody was saying that men also experience postpartum depression or something
I’m like you know what, there’s no point anymore trying to make someone understand and what I’m speechless, where do I go from there? Like we’re trying to say that women are stressed, they are sleep deprived, help your partners. We shouldn’t be saying that and then you’re saying, “men go through it too” and we’re like “do they carry the babies?” and I’m like where do we go from here?
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: it’s just it’s just it’s just really ridiculous. so let’s move. so Gabrielle, your approach to to the abortion debate was mind-blowing, it was different, it was like, it was so different from what we have been seeing, I think, I think that’s one of the reasons why it popped, that way that’s all the reasons why till today it’s too relevant it was, it was, you know, I’m kind of short of words now because when I read it.
You know that emoji where your brain is like there’s flames on his [head], my mind was blown, so could you tell our listeners what’s your solution in the thread and in your book for us to end this abortion debate?
Gabrielle Blair: well I I’m not even sure which thing you’re referring to because I know the thread was long and I said a few things but one of the things I said is if you really are anti-abortion, like if you really really cared about getting rid of abortion then why not give a vasectomy to every 12 year old boy and then reverse it when he’s an adult if his partner and he decide they want to have a baby and I said this I was definitely being obnoxious you know like I definitely was being obnoxious because I know no mother would choose that, no one would choose that, I understand but just to try and point out that people are so willing to do things to women’s bodies, to control women’s bodies, make laws about women’s bodies but no one would ever make a law about giving vasectomies, a very safe, easy procedure. they would never suggest that for boys bodies even though, they’re totally fine for girls to use birth control and deal with the side effects and all of that from a young age.
So that so that was one of the things and I I again was saying that more obnoxiously um in reality the solutions I want are the ones I I talked, I’ve already mentioned. I want to see free and accessible Birth control. I want men to be embracing vasectomies and condoms, I want men to think about their sperm as a dangerous fluid you know like “Oh this is I could hurt someone with my sperm, I could risk her life, I could risk her job her social status like I should be so careful with my sperm.
I want that if someone suggested to a man that they have sex without a condom he would go “Why would I do that that’s so dangerous, it’s dangerous for me it’s dangerous for you, I would never do that?” like that’s what I want to see happen and some of that comes back to education.
If we’re teaching kids about sex ed and we’re teaching boys and girls that hey do you know sperm causes pregnancy these sperm are always fertile every time he ejaculates he’s fertile.
We don’t teach that but that would help a ton the reality is most of the time when a woman has sex, she can’t become pregnant. Her egg is only fertile 12 to 24 hours each month so most of the time when she has sex she cannot become pregnant but every time a man has sex every time he can potentially impregnate someone so we are so focused on women’s bodies, controlling women’s bodies and we’re so focused on women’s bodies controlling women’s bodies and why don’t we just shift some of that focus over to men and think about what men can do to prevent pregnancy.
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: you know the part about sex education and how people need to actually learn because you see a lot of people, grown-ups they’re out there just they’ll make some conversations and you’ll be like why don’t you know the first thing about your body, about the human body and they have a lot to say in their ignorance, so yeah I think it’s very important for us to make sex education compulsory for like even in the school curriculum because I know that some parents fight against this because they think it exposes their children to early sex but what it does is, it protects them.
Gabrielle Blair: it protects them you’re exactly right it protects them,
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Yes, when you have knowledge about something if you, if you if you have knowledge about snakes or you know where snakes are, you know not never to go there. Yes. you know when you’re going to a place where snakes are you know how to navigate so that, you do not get beaten by snakes, so it just makes sense that we should focus on educating young people from when they are small, from adolescence.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: Yes. educate them about this thing so that, when they grow up they’ll not grow up to saying “don’t your period starts every month, don’t your period start every month or It’s not every woman gets their period at the end of the month?”, they will not be able to say that right, yes because yeah so and they’ll be able to practice safe sex and we’ll be able to reduce the whole abortion thing that has so many people upset, so yes thank you so much for for that thread and the book.
Gabrielle Blair: thank you for having me, I really really enjoyed this discussion, and I appreciate it so much, I hope you guys have a fantastic day, thank you so much. we still have, we still have one final.
Gabrielle Blair: one more final question okay great.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: so finally what advice would you give our listeners about managing their sexual and reproductive health?
Gabrielle Blair: okay so what I want, I want your listeners to do if they’re women, I want the women to take responsibility for their bodies they probably already are, but I want them to continue to take responsibility for their bodies, if the listeners are men, I want you to start taking responsibility for your bodies, right now you probably aren’t.
Men expect women to be responsible for women’s bodies and for men’s bodies, they will say she could have just, she could have just um insisted I wear a condom, if you say that you’re saying she has to be responsible for her body and for your body, like it’s, it’s not okay. Why don’t you show up with the condoms, figure out which condoms you like, you show up with the condoms do not even let her bring them up you can just take care of it that’s what we need to see from men and if you don’t like condoms go get a vasectomy, you have options
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: If you do not like vasectomy and condoms, be celibate and while you’re being celibate, do not touch women do not, do not harass women because that’s what the incel community is all about, they’re so angry and then they start to attack women violently, so close your legs, close your legs. we’re repeating ourselves again on air and we’ll do it off the air,
Yeah, celibacy is also a method of birth control but somehow it’s like nobody wants to practice celibacy. why can’t you right?
Thank you so much Gabrielle thank you for sharing your insights and sparking such important dialogue through your work. Thank you for speaking what important dialogue seeing your work.
Gabrielle Blair: I love this interview, I love the both of you! I love questions, thank you so much. thank you, thank you, I was delighted to have you on youtube yeah
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: and to our listeners, we hope today’s episode has been eye-opening you’ve learned a lot about how to practice safe sex, how to reduce the abortion abortion rates and how to be better humans, actually. We hope that you’ve learned a lot from it and we hope that you take responsibility for your sexual and reproductive rights and health with this conversation we’ve had today.
Rihanot Ojo-Oba: One more thing before we go, Tiara. Most importantly for today’s episode, to the men, ejaculate how Tiara? Ejaculate responsibly.
Gabrielle Blair: Woo-hoo! Ejaculate responsibly!
Tiaraoluwa Fadeyi: Yes! We want you to say, that’s for our listeners, Gabrielle.
Gabrielle Blair: Ejaculate responsibly!
